PEX Plumbing
Posted on July 10, 2007 - Filed Under Housing |
Clifford: The plumbing underneath is shot. I’d like to have it all copper.
Mikki: PEX
Clifford: Yeah on resale, the buyers will be stoked that it’s all copper under there.
Mikki: PEX
Clifford Pecks? I have been doing yoga. Thanks for noticing.
Mikki: Don’t make me hurt you.
PEX is quite a remarkable invention.
PEX
is, for lack of a better term, some poly-something based goo, shoved through a Playdoh fun factory. This tubing installs
in about 1/4 of the time of regular copper. If you think of it in
terms of a thick garden hose, you’re on a track.
Copper has been
used primarily because it is a malleable metal. That’s a fancy term
for saying it bends easily. So unlike cast-iron, which had to fit
using "creative" methods, copper could be easily bent into the position
it was needed.
PEX is even more flexible than that.
It cost a lot less than copper. Not only for installation but for material costs.
There
are red tubes for hot water, blue tubes for
cold water. No more guessing which is which. Unless your color blind. Then there might be a slight disadvantage.
Maintenance must be a snap.
For a note: the interior of the house is copper. The only spot where PEX was used was underneath the house.
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10 Responses to “PEX Plumbing”
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The builders in Phoenix have switched to the AquaPEX. Much cheaper to buy and to install.
However, everyone seems to have forgoten polybutylene, the last plastic wonderpipe. No matter what the materials engineers say, plastic has longevity and toxicity issues that copper doesn’t. An easily replaceable stretch of AquaPEX in a crawl space or basement is one thing. A houseful with a slab foundation is another.
I don’t want the liability when the PEX fails and the witch hunts begin. I will stick to copper, thanks.
Cliff,
I have had to do two complete repipe jobs in two of our houses due to leaks beneath the slab and PEX was used in both jobs.
Although I didn’t do the work myself, I would think that using copper in that situation would be a royal pain.
The only thing I worry about is how well that stuff (PVC) stands up to time and heat, etc.
As Another Investor said, my new construction house built last year was 100% PEX. I thought it looked odd, a bunch of red and blue running through the walls. I think we’re used to metal inside our walls. I worried about punching a hole through it with a nail on accident though.
AI
First off, Pex can’t be used in a concrete slab. It also cannot be used outside. It will disintegrate in sunlight. But I don’t understand your argument for copper. Any method encased in a concrete slab will require “a witch hunt” if a line should leak. Concrete is incredible corrosive, and if copper is not properly wrapped, the concrete will eat right through it.
It’s been relatively recent that copper was made safer by changing the flux used to solder the fittings. Before, the flux contained lead, which would seep into drinking supply.
Before copper, there was galvanized steel. Not bad, if you enjoyed drinking rust.
Pex, for larger homes is usually installed with a manifold system, similar to the breaker panel. In the event of a leak, one run can be shut off without disturbing distribution to the rest of the house.
And as Cliff mentioned, it’s cheaper to buy and install. The only “problem” with it is the tools to install it are different than tools for copper, and they are pricey. But once purchased, no more problems.
Bruce, Pex, is not PVC. I’m not a chemist and I don’t know the difference between polyvinyl chloride and cross-linked polyethylene but wikipaedia does!
As a side note, Clifford, copper replaced galvy because it was easier to work with in that it did not require threading pipe as it steel does when it’s cut to fit a location.
Because copper can be cut anywhere along its run and soldered with a variety of fittings it could be made to go anywhere. Even back yard art…
As for its malleability, the good stuff (schedule L) can not be easily bent to fit. It must be heated before bending. A good plumber won’t bend it to fit, but instead, cut it appropriately and install with fittings that put it where it needs to go.
Also, I’m kind of proud of you that you crawled under the house. That yoga is paying off.
Now if I could just get you to want a tankless water heater, you’d be the coolest kid on the block…
I have a house in a suburb of Phoenix with the AquaPEX. It has the manifold system and the hoses run overhead. I bought it four years ago and there have not been any problems to date. I don’t intend to hold it any longer than 5 or 6 years. I don’t want to be left holding the bag if and when this stuff starts to fail.
When the polybutylene failed, the lawsuits began. Builders and sellers all got sued. Polybutylene pipes became a disclosable defect. In some areas, these houses were not very marketable for years. Many people had to completely repipe to sell.
I repiped an older house in Tempe about 5 years ago that had a slab leak, but I did it with copper. No problems and I would use copper again.
Well, AI, I guess to each their own. I’m just not that concerned with it. I figure that if something were to go wrong with the PEX, it would have happened sometime in the last 30 years it’s been in use.
It was not my intention to claim that PEX was better than copper. In the end, which option is chosen oftentimes depends on local conditions.
Some good friends of mine purchased a 30 year old-house in Huntington Beach. Cement slab, one of dozens in a housing complex. Within five years of owning their house, they noticed all their neighbors were having to rip up their foundations because the copper plumbing was leaking.
Two things: First, there is something in the soil in the beach cities which acts corrosively against copper. Second, the copper used during construction was brought in from China. Why? It was cheaper. Anyone who has spent any time dealing with metalurgy knows China is not known for having the toughest metals.
In the case of this project, I have ideal conditions. Raised foundation, in a temperate climate. The PEX is protected underneath the house but not touching any kind of dirt. It is not sitting in water for months on end. If the PEX were exposed to the elements, such as the sun, then eventually it would wear out. Or if the house were located in Minnesota where the temperature plummets to -40 degrees, that would be extreme.
Piping goes UNDER the slab, usually in the soil or in the gravel layer just under the slab. I bury the DWV in a trench with packed sand, then sand on top, then gravel then slab. The water supply if it must go under the slab is heavely protected and is done in home runs, i.e. long single runs of pipe without joints. there is an enclosure system you can purchase for burying PEX under a slab, it consists of foam and plastic, I have seen some people slleve the PEX in other more rigid plastic piping to protect it as well. Thanks, Gregory
Well, I just had my second slab leak detected this morning in the Mesa area. I started hearing water running and the bathroom floor got warm. Pinhole leak in copper pipe repaired 4 years ago, and this time the plumber recommended repiping the entire house. He said the minerals in the water plus the high water pressure are the cause of the leaks from the inside of the pipes out. The house is 23 years old. Can this be true? I am going to get several other opinions and bids, Turned the hot water heater off for now.